INTERVIEW : GROUNDATION
Interview by : Sébastien Jobart
Pictures by : Caroline Dall'o & Frank Casali
on Wednesday, April 05th 2006 - 34 258 views
For five albums now, these Californians have been impressing. A flawless record since their debut and a sense of constant progress place them among the best representatives of modern roots. As considered as it is improvised, Groundation's music has turned into dub with the recent ‘‘Dub Wars’‘, soon to be followed by ‘‘Upon the bridge’‘, their next album, which should be ready for the autumn. Until then, they will be touring France in June. A conversation with Harrison Stafford, singer and leader of the roots band of the moment.
Reggaefrance / You have a strong identity, from the start. It must have been hard to impose that sound, which is why you set up your own label right away.
Groundation / Yes, it was for those reasons but also because we had faith in the music. You have to keep it unique. Not having to compromise, not feeling like you’re adding one more flavour to this gigantic music market. We want to be sure of creating what we want, what we love, without exception. The beginnings weren’t easy, and still aren’t. As you grow, you face new challenges. You learn a lot about the record industry. You learn that not everything in it is very good…
In the USA, music is seen as a business.
Exactly, that’s why we have quite imposing obstacles in our path in the United States. Over there, we have a large fan base who love what we do. Generally speaking, there is an audience who feel our music can be seen as demanding; it isn’t background music. Being unique, different, is a hard road in the United States. But that’s not a problem… It’s the road we chose. It means that even if the road is hard and you think you’ll never get there, you do it anyway. All your life.
'Dub Wars'' is made up of the dubs of ''Hebron Gate'' and ''We Free Again''.
We didn’t play any extra parts, but we did include some, especially for the ''We Free Again'' dubs. There was Jim Fox, who did a few live dub versions in the studio. And Marcus Urani then worked those dubs, picking pieces from which he made a master. We put all of that on a hard drive, and Marcus was then able, thanks to the 24 tracks, to pick the original tracks and dub them a second time. He could explore several paths, try things, go back, and completely arrange the album. We used flute, saxophone, instruments we hadn’t used on the original album. As on The Seventh Seal.
Groundation is really a meeting of musicians, of instrumentalists… You all studied jazz, after all.
I was into reggae and jazz, my father played piano, but Marcus, Ryan, Dave and the others all have different influences. Obviously when you go to university, you can’t enrol in ''Reggae Music''. We all studied jazz, that’s where we met, and it certainly built our sound, which would be hard to imitate. Because we took musical roads that people don’t really take. We all speak the same musical language; what a band might rehearse for a month, we could do in a day. Because we know the grammar of music, all its rules. Knowing all that frees you to develop certain things. Especially when you’re talking about jazz, in terms of harmonies or polymetric structures. Which is very hard to play, and to sing too. But since we went through that training, all of it is in us, absorbed, digested.
Have you never recorded any jazz tracks?
Actually, yes. We have a series of live recordings where we play jazz. We made a few studio recordings years ago. We all got on the same plane; we were all looking to create something original. It’s been in my head since I was twelve. And when I discovered reggae, I knew I had found it, this conscious music… Some people study and study, and then become jazz musicians. That’s a hard road too. Because when you do that, people in the record shop see your record next to Miles Davis’s! You’re competing with Miles Davis!
On ''Dub Wars'', you get the impression that each track could go on for ever. Have you ever felt you could never finish a track?
No, no, never. Soloists have to learn their lesson: start, build, and finish a solo. Just like singing. You can’t sing, sing and sing… At some point you have to ask yourself about your goal, the purpose of what you’re doing. When you play live, it’s different, you can do what you want. On the album, you have to control the length of the solos, their construction, make sure everything is ''clean''. In the future, you could say the balance of Groundation albums would be 50-50: 50% vocals, 50% music. It’s a balance I love in bands like Pink Floyd. It gives more impact. When you listen to ''Wish You Were Here'' by Pink Floyd, you have to wait 8 minutes before you hear the voice. And then it’s like a reward.
The act of creation is sometimes difficult, even painful.
I write songs all the time, maybe a hundred a year. But you try to make the best song, the most unique one. But sometimes the best song won’t be unique enough, you see what I mean? You have to make certain choices and leave some tracks aside. You try to find certain things again. Musically, you try to read, to keep your mind awake. And then you realise that the best way to get a Groundation song is to put everybody in one room and have someone record.
Our musical training lets us improvise in the widest possible way: open up and play. When you listen back to yourself, you realise the sound is really powerful. We’re then able to rewrite what we’ve just improvised, which lets us improvise even more afterwards, to be better another day. A song like Smile was written that way. All the chords, the intros, Marcus’s bits, the bass line, all the crazy little things Ryan does on drums, it was all written in one day. Even the trumpet and trombone lines, as on the intro, were written that day. In one day, the song was played. I just started from (he sings) "Smi-i-i-i-ile", then improvised the words.
Do you improvise your lyrics too?
A good part, yes. I didn’t used to work like that. I would sit behind a desk, count syllables, think about rhymes… And then I told myself that whatever you write that way, you always end up with a ''typical'' track, like everybody else. OK so it’s an ABC section, you repeat it twice, you find the chorus that you repeat too… Bob Marley wrote like that, but he wrote fantastic songs. And everybody writes the same way now. Since ''Hebron Gate'', and even more with ''We Free Again'', and even more on the next album to come, it seems to me that improvisation is the best method. Because Marcus, Ryan, Paul and the others are going to play that way, they’re going to answer each other. And suddenly the song is born; all that’s left is the arrangements.
I imagine that over the years it gets easier and easier to improvise together.
Yes, of course. And there’s also an emulation that pushes all of us to be different. It’s very important; I don’t want to look like anybody. I want to play original music.
Your voice is unique too; it has that intensity…
Yes, but the times are intense! It’s true, my voice is… not really a cry or a complaint… But rather like someone calling out to you. The times are serious, and I’m not whistling a little pop tune on MTV. I’m talking to you about us, about life, about music.
Cultural Wars, on ''We Free Again'', perfectly illustrates your music.
I don’t remember when we played that song… We were playing Weak Heart, from ‘‘Each One Teach One’‘. We already had the base, we were looking for a few licks while improvising. All of a sudden I cut them off, everybody stopped dead, and I went off on another chord: (he sings) ‘‘Ah wo-o-o, wo-o-o...’‘ That’s how the song was born, the first movement of Cultural Wars. Everybody had their say. I wanted to end the piece with a slightly crazy harmonic thing, on an up-tempo rhythm. Ryan came in with the second movement, very structured, with somewhat abstract harmonies. Originally I wasn’t supposed to sing on it. The third part was born during a rehearsal. We were playing the Gladiators’ Mix up mix up. At one point the rhythm changes, it caught our attention and I started singing.
Afterwards we said to ourselves: ‘‘How can we use these movements together?’‘ We worked on the transitions, and Marcus came in with this huge part between the third and fourth movements.
It was above all hard in the studio, because we recorded everything in one go. Every time we messed up, it was as if we had to replay three songs in a row! It happened to us a few times. For a while we tried to find a way of playing the movements two by two, but we decided it had to be done in one go.
Are you working on an album?
We’re working on the new album, ''Upon the Bridge''. It’s funny that we talked about Cultural Wars, because it’s going to be along the same lines. That sort of ''whole''. We have twelve pieces, so to speak, that we’re going to link with this bridge, with these musical moments. It’s going to be good, we have several ideas. We’re very excited because we learned a lot from the previous albums. We feel ready, and I’m sure it will be our best album.
You already told us that the best album is always yet to come (see previous interview).
I’m sure of it; I wouldn’t make music if it weren’t. Our whole message is about the evolution of thought, of music. Thinking and knowing that music is our most beautiful gift, the best thing human beings can do. Music is human, only that. I want to see it evolve, not stagnate because of the business. All of this is an evolution, and what’s to come is obviously the best. Because music reflects you, you evolve, with luck you learn the lessons life gives you, the tools to communicate with people. I don’t want to be a band that churns out albums that all sound alike. This next album will be a whole other experience. We have the means to realise what we have in our heads. Even more today than at the time of ''We Free Again''.
Let’s go back to the next album; you were talking about twelve parts?
No, rather twelve ideas. I couldn’t say at the moment whether there will be twelve songs. But we have plenty of ideas; these twelve are only the beginning. ‘‘Upon the Bridge’‘ is about the moment in life. People may not know it, but every Groundation album has a place in inner development. The first album, ‘‘Young Tree’‘, was the first accomplishment of young Americans. Being a person who can grow, build themselves. ‘‘Each One Teach One’‘ is about knowing your History. You’re not alone in the battle; you have your parents who influence you, who taught you rules and instilled values in you. ‘‘Hebron Gate’‘ illustrates conflict, which is both outside and inside yourself. That opposition between those two forces, Good and Evil. After that album, the war is over, and it’s eternal. ‘‘We Free Again’‘ is the first album that talks about today, and maybe even about the future. ‘‘Upon the Bridge’‘ is about 2006 and the future. When I talk about the twelve ideas, I’m thinking more of twelve ‘‘objectives’‘. Twelve key moments, connected to everything else. But for me, ‘‘Upon the Bridge’‘ is where we all are (‘‘on the bridge’‘, ed.).
Contemplating the world?
Yes, we come from History, and we are undeniably going somewhere; there are several paths we can take to get there. We don’t know whether the one our society has taken, the one we’re on, will take us to a good place or not. We’re not on the ground, we’re not resting on anything solid. We know nothing! (laughs) We’re on the bridge; anything can happen.
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