INTERVIEW : PROTOJE
Interview & pictures : Sébastien Jobart
on Wednesday, June 03rd 2015 - 17 520 views
With his third album, "Ancient Future", Protoje has found the accomplice he was looking for in the producer Phillip "Winta" James. The fruit of their meeting, Ancient Future bridges tradition and modernity. Now a producer for himself (he produced one track on the album, Bubblin') or for the young singer Sevana (the single A Bit Too Shy, ahead of an album he is working on), Protoje has taken on a new dimension. During his European tour, he took the time to look back on the making of the album. Interview.
Reggaefrance / Your new album bridges roots reggae and modern influences. Is that why you called it "Ancient Future"?
Protoje / Exactly. I wanted to carry an ancient spirit with a futuristic sound. Musically, it sounds like the future, like hip hop, but nobody can say "He's not doing reggae". I found a way to trap everybody (laughs).
"Ancient Future" is the fruit of your collaboration with the producer Phillip "Winta" James.
I had the concept for my third album but I didn't know who to make it with. I was going to do it myself… But when I met Winta, when he played me what he had in mind and the kind of music he made, I knew he could create the sound I wanted.
That sound reminds me of the Jamaican producer Junjo Lawes, with his musicians the Roots Radics.
That's how Winta and I bonded, over our love for Junjo Lawes. When I told him: "You know, I'd like to have elements of Channel One, like Junjo Lawes", he answered: "What? I've never heard anyone of your generation talk about Junjo Lawes." We discovered we had that in common. He played me the Rootsman riddim, and it was what I wanted. So that's a good observation. But we didn't want to "sound like", we wanted to update that sound. Flabba Holt plays on All Will Have to Change and Sudden flight, so we even have the Roots Radics bass player on the album.
 Quand j’ai rencontré Winta, j’ai su qu’il pouvait créer le son que je voulais. 
That very hip hop sound suits your flow well.
My writing, my flow, the structures I use, come from hip hop. My music always sits well on that kind of sound. It's even more tailor-made for me than reggae.
What kind of producer is Winta?
Winta is a very good producer. He's very tough, no, not tough, but very direct in the studio, he knows what he wants. He knows which musicians he wants for which track, so I let him make his choices. He wanted Stone (from Dubtonic Kru) to play the bass on Stylin and Earl Chinna Smith on guitar, Monty (C-Sharp's guitarist) to play on a certain track, Glen Brown, Robbie Shakespeare… He knows perfectly which musician is the most suitable for the sound he's after. We have a very good working relationship, and I want to keep working with him.
Will he produce your next album?
Yes, he and I will be executive producers on my next album. We'll probably bring in other producers, but we'll oversee everything.
After Bit Too Shy, Sevana's first single, Bubblin is your first production for yourself.
Yeah… I had others, but Winta's beats are better than mine, so we only used one of mine (laughs). Winta made additions, he made the sound heavier, that's what he does. I wrote the track while building the beat, so it really fits together.
Almost half of the album features young artists: Chronixx, Jesse Royal, Kabaka Pyramid…
I'd never done a duet with Chronixx, Jesse Royal or Kabaka Pyramid, and those were things I wanted to achieve. Mortimer is an artist my keyboard player and my drummer work with. They introduced him to me, and I thought he had a good sound. I want this album to be like a time capsule, so that when someone listens to it in fifteen years they think: "That was an important moment of 2015". It's a first-rate cast. In five years, who can say where these artists will be?
The last track on the album, The Flame, starts out like a reggae tune but ends with strings, guitars and backing vocals…
There's nothing in reggae that sounds like that. I challenge anyone to play me a reggae track that sounds like that. Winta went into another stratosphere to produce this song. When I heard the track switch, I went crazy! I was like: "What is this? What are you thinking? This is completely mad!" And then, when I come back for the final verse, nobody expects it, and then "shhh", the album is over, with ten seconds of silence.
Actually, there was supposed to be another song after it, a duet with my mother (Lorna Bennett, editor's note) called Used To Be My Life, but we didn't get clearance for the sample we wanted. When we heard The Flame, the 11th song, my mother told me the album had to end on that track, and not to put the last one in, even though it was her song. Winta wanted to include the song, but we didn't get clearance.
How long can you spend fine-tuning the running order?
Before recording, I had an order. When I recorded the album I changed it; when we mixed the album I changed it; when it was mastered I changed it one last time. The last change was swapping Stylin and Who Can You Call when the 12th song was finally dropped. I didn't want Stylin’ to be the second-to-last song on the album, because I like my last two songs to be powerful, spiritual and to leave the listener with a lasting impression.
Why put Protection first? Mortimer is the first voice we hear.
Mortimer must be quite honoured to open the album, because it's his first song. Nobody knows him, he'd released nothing before this. That's what I wanted. I would never let an artist who already has a career open my album. I wanted a sound nobody had heard before, I wanted it to feel as if it came from an ancient mind. It could have been a sample, because I use him almost like a sample. But I wanted to give him credit for the duet.
I could sing a lot of the album's choruses myself, you know, but Winta wanted me to focus on my rhymes, on my lyrics. Even Who Knows, I started by singing it myself. It was only afterwards that I asked Chronixx to sing the chorus and the hook. I could sing the choruses on many of these songs, but Winta didn't want me to sing as much as on my first two albums and wanted me to concentrate on "spitting" my lyrics.
It's well balanced between your verses and their choruses.
And it adds a different feel too. I could never have sung like Mortimer or Sevana, that's for sure! All the duets are well thought out and well placed, I think.
Sevana is the first artist you've produced.
Winta and I produce her the way we produce me. I discovered her, I signed her, and I was going to do productions for her, but I really trust Winta's ear, and I didn't want to go into this project on my own. I'm not ready for that yet. I called Winta, who loved her. We're currently working on her next project, which will come out on our label. It's her first album. Maybe we'll put out an EP first. And then we'll go back into the studio for my next project.
Sudden Flight is a message to young people, and takes the gang leaders Claudie Massop, Jim Brown and Dudus as counter-examples.
My father explained the garrisons to me, the links between gangs and political parties. After Claudie Massop came Jim Brown, and then his son Dudus. And it was the same government that backed them that launched the assault on Tivoli Gardens (the stronghold of Claudie Massop, Jim Brown and Dudus, stormed by the army in May 2010, editor's note). If you have to fight, fight for a cause that means something, because politicians will use you, manipulate you and gladly hang you out to dry when they're done with you.
Out of curiosity, what are you reading at the moment?
It's incredible that you ask, because it's very much connected to this story! If you haven't read this book, you have to get hold of it: "A Brief History of Seven Killings", written by Marlon James. It's a very detailed novel about the 70s and 80s in Jamaica. It's a novel, so all those people like Claudie aren't called by their real names, but if you read the book, you can guess who they are. It's the most powerful book I've ever read. I started it yesterday. I'm going to write some crazy stuff from this book!
Do you often draw your inspiration from your reading?
100%. The more I read, the more I write. If I don't read, I don't write much. I love films too. I draw a lot of my inspiration from films and the media. Right now, I'm trying not to write too much, even though I wrote a killer verse last night, which I'm very proud of! But I'm trying to read, listen to music and watch films, and prepare for my next album.
Prince Fatty told us you loved his arrangements on Hollie Cook's album "Twice".
That's what I wanted for the song with my mother, the famous 12th song. He was going to add strings and mix the track. I played his work to Winta, who loved it and thought we should let him mix the last track. Prince Fatty built the track, the drums, the bass, the percussion… It's a crazy song! It's a shame we didn't get clearance for the sample. We might try again, now that we have a bit more money to pay them (laughs). But it wasn't even an option, they simply refused. Maybe I'll release it for free. I won't make anything from it but people need to hear this song. My mother sings on it, it's a John Holt sample… Actually, John Holt had sung it for me but I lost the session and now that he's passed away, there's nothing more to be done… But Prince Fatty is killer! I'll work with him one day, for sure.
You're currently touring Europe, what's next for you?
Going back to Jamaica to play a few shows in schools, coming back to Europe; going to South America, coming back to Europe, going to the USA, coming back to Europe…
Is Europe your second home?
Yeah, I could live here. It's work time for me right now. And the work is in Europe. Europe loves my music, I have a big audience here. I can go back to Jamaica for holidays and to recharge spiritually.
Is Jamaica too small?
I feel like the world belongs to me, that wherever I go I can call it "home". I don't feel that home has to be Jamaica, or Africa. The whole world belongs to everyone, and everybody should be able to leave and settle wherever they want. Now they ask you for passports and visas, but when the Europeans came to plant their flags in the Caribbean, nobody needed any passport. How can anyone tell me today that I can't go here, or live there? The world shouldn't be like that. So I try to make every place I go my home.
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