INTERVIEW : SIZZLA
Interview by : Alexandre Tonus
Pictures by : Julian Schmidt - www.reggaephotos.de
on Tuesday, June 19th 2007 - 34 066 views
It is well known that getting an interview with Sizzla is not easy. We got one by phone several weeks ago. Surprisingly, while the Bobo's reputation credits him with a deep dislike of the media, it was an open and talkative Sizzla we were able to talk with at length. A chance to look back at his then-latest album ("The Overstanding") on Damon Dash's label, but also to tackle many themes that are not always easy to negotiate but are often crucial to the deejay's rhetoric.
This interview called for other questions that we would have liked to ask him now that he is back in France after four years away. But the Sizzla we ran into was a completely different one, guarded. What remains is this marathon interview with the most talented artist of his generation.
Reggaefrance / When you started working with Damon Dash, you said the aim was to get better distribution and promotion for your music. What was the artistic motivation?
Sizzla / It is not just about distribution, even though we need money, because without money we cannot buy things legally in this system. But I am Rasta, because Rastafari is the king of Africa. He is the king of Africa who rises up to free the land and keep the people free and educated. So I have to keep moving forward on that path. Having good distribution is one thing, but again there is a purpose and an opportunity to reach more young people across the world, to unite them, to unify their culture. Even if it is only to say "Hello, good morning, no to crime, no to violence", it is Sizzla Kalonji working so that everybody is educated in the future. Even if we only reach a few people, we must do it. Whether you sell one record or millions, you are always reaching people.
You also spoke about the possibility of producing trainers and T-shirts. Is that serious?
Yes, it is serious. I signed a contract between Sizzla and Prokeds, and On The Merge designs clothes for me. So I give music to Damon, which helps him with his DDMG Music Group, and Damon helps me by providing trainers. I wear my own trainers on stage. And those trainers are in production right now, to be distributed across all the islands of the Caribbean and even in the United States. We don't want to go out there and seem to disrespect people, relying on crime and violence to earn money. Everywhere I try to do my best: get a deal for trainers, a deal for clothes, a deal for spring water or something else, and represent the people. That way people will show their support for the product and we can live honestly and eat at a clean table.
Producing T-shirts or trainers is a bit paradoxical for a Rasta...
Rastas are known for living on the margins of the Babylon system. That makes you understand that we have to build our own system. The Bobo Shanti, the Rastas make their own clothes, their own fabrics. Music goes with fashion; people must be treated with dignity. As the Bible says, the hungry must be fed, the naked must be clothed, the sick must be healed, the old must be protected, and the child must be watched over. That applies to every nation, to every human being on Earth. So I stand out there to guide all those people. What if those people say to me, "Sizzla, we need to eat. Where is the restaurant? Where are the clothes? Where are the shoes? You give us music, you can do many more things." I am not here to sit around with my talent.
Are you really doing things for the people, for your people, today?
For my family, for my people, for my nation and for all the other nations. All nations support Sizzla. When I am in that concert hall, you have to pay attention: Blacks, Whites, Chinese, Indians, Syrians, Africans, everybody is there. So when I look out and see all these beautiful people, these sons and daughters, together in front of me, I know my mission is serious. Even looking into the audience makes me serious. Even if I were joking around, just walking on stage and looking at the crowd makes me say to myself, "My God, I realise how many people have spent money to buy shoes and clothes, how many girls have dressed up, just to go to a concert." You have to take your work seriously, and if they listen to my music, I would very much like the girls to wear clothes I have designed. I don't feed them only with words; I feed them with food and clothes as well. I am a human being, I have feelings, I have to take care of myself and stay clean, so I think the same about everyone.
You have discovered a new industry by doing a lot of duets with hip-hop artists lately (Busta Rhymes, Foxy Brown, Mos Def). What do you take from it?
It is a blessing! Because they are the leaders of this world. Not in terms of the system of government, but according to the laws of nature. People follow these artists. In Jamaica, people get excited about these overseas artists. When they release a new song, they set it as a ringtone on their phones, they sing it, they use the instrumentals. And when these artists hear our riddims and our songs, sometimes they sing on them too. So I say: "Come here and sing a duet with Busta Rhymes!" I am Sizzla, but I am excited at the idea of doing a song with Busta, and Busta is too. I see that we had been waiting a long time to join forces, so let's join forces now."
I work 6 days of the week, and I rest on the seventh. And I noticed that this blessing arrived at the same time as 2007. So I say that 2007 will be two thousand blessings; we must love and worship Mount Zion, paradise. So we don't just observe from the outside, we observe from the inside too, and we observe spiritually. And then we observe the seasons, we observe the weather, we observe the year and those things, we observe the things that affect people and we say, "Yo, there was too much crime and violence in 2005 and 2006, so 2007, we are going to make it an African vintage." The world knows that the rastaman teaches righteousness and is a revolutionary soldier. So we take things seriously, and God is protecting me at the moment, so I keep moving forward.
And what is the position of artists like Busta Rhymes or Foxy Brown on Rasta?
They know Rastafari, believe me. Sometimes they just make music for the industry, which demands a certain type of song, commercially speaking. Simply to bring in money, to sell records; it is their job. Singing songs, going on stage, it is a job, like anyone else's. Hip-hop artists are aware of what is going on, they know that people are suffering. Because they are conscious and because they see that this music can bring them money, they take advantage of it. So they sing about money or jewellery because they were neglected, deprived of all those things. When I study American rappers, I see them singing about bling bling and so on. Honestly, I am not so different. It is just that I don't sing about it and I don't insist on bling bling. But if you turn to the Most High Selassie I, His crown is made entirely of gold. It is up to us now to get closer to those rappers to show them and teach them a little more about their culture. Marcus Garvey comes from Jamaica but it was in Harlem that he became important.
So I am not that different. I am here to unite the young people of the whole world, starting from my nation. By unifying my nation, giving it something to do, it will be able to help a neighbouring nation. Sizzla helps the Black nation to make shoes, clothes, cars, houses, music... When I look at the Indian nation and the White nation, I see something small that I could make use of. But how do I reach them if I have nothing with me? I have nothing to give. That means I have to work to have something. Everything on this earth comes from human beings. Money does not walk down the street saying "Hey Sizzla, come and catch me". No, money is in people's pockets, and they spend it to buy Sizzla records. That is how Sizzla makes money.
What was your intention in remixing "untouchable" songs like Black woman and child or Thank you mama? They are really similar to the original versions.
Those remixes were Damon's idea. He loves Thank you mama. Everybody loves it. No nation could fight without a mother. Personally, I don't like repeating myself on an album. On every album, every song should be new. But that is the marketing strategy, the promotion. That song is very conscious. Sometimes when I watch television, I see young children talking back to their parents. It doesn't happen like that in the Caribbean. When Damon talked about putting that song on the album, I did not try to dissuade him, because I want the world to know it. That one song can stop enough violence and crime.
Do you still respect the sounds and the dubplates today?
Yes. You can't go to school without a pen and paper. Your tool, as a pupil, is your book and your pen. My instrument is the mic, the sound system, the guitar, the drums, the stage. It is important to have sound systems, media, journalists. Listen, Sizzla just sings the songs. Sizzla does not play the songs on the radio. It is the disc jockeys who play the songs, and they become famous because people listen to the songs, they like them and they request them. I make the songs, I don't sell them; it costs a lot to distribute your songs. The selectas take the songs, go to the dance and play them. So we depend on each other.
And sound systems love songs they can play in a clash. That is how you make money. If I sing Thank you mama, for example, a sound might want it as a dubplate. But it is a song for mothers, so you will have to give me 1,000 dollars for that song. I get up early in the morning and I see babies saying "Daddy, I am going to school and I want 50 dollars". "50 dollars to go to school?" "No, 60 dollars!" 60 Jamaican dollars makes 1 American dollar. That single dollar can get him to school for two days. When I see that I earn 60,000 Jamaican dollars just by singing Thank you mama, I take the matter very seriously. Music can feed people, and many of them have nothing to eat. They come, they sing and have fun and then they leave. If they could see what can come out of music, they would have seen its potential to feed people. That is why there are so many young Whites, Blacks, Indians and Chinese singing these days. They watch television and see Puffy, Sizzla, Jay Z making millions of dollars, and they want to go to school. And if music, a number one song, can give them millions of dollars, they will be able to pay for school. So we keep that state of mind.
You still release a lot of singles. Aren't you afraid of diluting your message?
No, not at all. Look at the Bible, there are so many books and prophecies. We need more books in the Bible. It is like music. In the industry, the habit is to say that too many songs kill the songs, so you have to make albums to have room to do the songs justice, to get everything you can out of them. But that is a different view from that of making music... Making music is also a business: you work, not from 9 to 5, but your whole life. It is a calling. The reason Sizzla puts out so many songs is that it is another strategy to be everywhere, keep the buzz going, use music to educate people, teach the young, express joy, love, happiness, pain or partying. I use music for almost everything because music is a universal language, but we also use music to make money. When Sizzla makes a song, the song does what it can. But I can't wait for its effect to dilute or for the song to be forgotten before putting out a new one. Every weekend, people go out to the clubs, and they want to hear something new. And if people like the new songs they hear, they will buy them. So continuing to make new songs is continuing to make new money.
You just give people what they want?
Yes. And something else too. You travel the world, but you can't tour with just one song. When Sizzla goes on stage, I don't like to sing ten songs, my brother, I like to sing forty or so! You know what I mean. I sing and people say: "Sing that one, sing this one again, King!" and even when I have sung 77 songs and I come off stage, there are still women who tell me: "Sizzla, you didn't sing my song, you know..." The artist must not fade out. That means he must always have a song in the radio charts. When I release a song, I don't like people asking me for new songs again; they should rather say: "Dada, I love that song, do a few more like that." And when I make an album, it does them justice.
Among your singles, there are many in different styles of music. Is it really your aim to sing on rock or rap instead of reggae?
I am an artist, I am a musician: I play guitar, drums, sometimes piano. Sometimes, when I hear those rock instrumentals, it drives me crazy. My brothers also tell me I should sing on hip-hop riddims. So it comes from encouragement on their part, but it is also a strategy: going towards Roc-A-Fella and the like is fine, those are new ideas for positioning yourself in music. My band (Firehouse, editor's note) can play hip-hop, rock, jazz, reggae, dancehall or ska. And something else you should know about the artist and his audience: even if you have a lot of Sizzla's early fans, who love the culture, there are also fans who like the hardcore and there are also girls who like it when songs are about them. But Sizzla has to be a professional in the sense that he is able to write a song for any type of riddim. Whether you are a reggae or dancehall artist, jazz, hip-hop, R&B, it is a tempo, beats, bars or melodies. We can adapt, mix genres to be part of youth culture.
You set up your own label, Kalonji Records. What is the purpose of Kalonji Records, given that you are also tied to VP and Greensleeves, among others?
My first aim is to be an independent company, because where we aim to be, there are mega-corporations: you have to be able to sit around the table and negotiate with them. I am the only boss of Kalonji. I tell you straight: I am the only one who handles the pressure, who goes on stage and does the job. So I have to negotiate personally, because those companies sell my work. People tell me: "Sizzla, we follow your work, you must have complete control over your destiny. We don't follow the labels, because all they do is rest on your products." So the problem becomes serious: I had to register my company, pay taxes... That way I can negotiate contracts.
But how do you negotiate with VP or Greensleeves? You still work with them.
Yes, I still work with them. That is how you can have a lot of singles. There are many producers who see music as an opportunity to make a living from it, to sell music and make money. Some are not in music for a real cause, but they don't kill anyone, they don't sell drugs, so you have to let them be. When they have a new riddim, they want Sizzla. And I will not let that riddim come out without me. I will not let that opportunity to reach people pass by.
Apart from those big labels, many albums have come out on a multitude of different labels in Europe and the United States. Do you keep control over every Sizzla album that comes out every month?
Yes, I have control over my albums. I have my own publishing company, I have my own label, I have my accountant, I have my lawyer, I have my management team. I have a whole structure. So when I make a song, or when I have made an album for someone, even if it isn't on my label, I always have my credits and all those things in order.
But when an album like that comes out, does the label order 20 singles from you to make a compilation?
I can tell you that to make a new album, it has to be songs you don't know and they have to name those songs to you. As a label, if you are given a new album, and then another album, and another one, you have been authorised to record them and promote them. So you can always release a Sizzla compilation. It is a matter of three Sizzla albums, so they don't want to lose them. Sometimes, you have albums that come out that were not produced in the studio as such. The labels know the marketing strategy and they have seen where they can actually make money. So they compile another album and release it. For example, you have albums by Capleton, Sizzla and Luciano... that come out; personally, I did not go into the studio and never made an album with Capleton or Luciano. It is the label that put those albums together. It has to do with the terms of the contracts we signed in each territory.
Do you spend your days at Judgement Yard?
Sizzla's studio is at Judgement Yard, that is where I meditate, that is where I wake up every morning and go and sit. When the world asks: "Where is Sizzla today?" he is in his studio, at Judgement Yard. We have a radio station there now, where people can come whenever they want and play their songs. That is a typical example of what Judgement Yard is. The reason I called this place Judgement Yard is that people are not stupid, people always aim higher. So I said to myself: "How can I represent myself?" I don't want a stupid name; I want people to say when they hear that name: "Judgement Yard! I want to know what it is about." In the Bible, it says that the Almighty will establish a throne of judgement, so I told myself I wanted to establish the throne of judgement in our neighbourhood. As long as the throne of judgement is in our neighbourhood, in our home, we will not do anything wrong or stupid.
Two years ago, weapons were reportedly found at Judgement Yard. Do you feel threatened?
There were never any weapons found at Judgement Yard. If there had been, I wouldn't be on tour in Canada right now! But the media seized on it. That is why some artists don't much like journalists, because they don't always look for the truth. They want Sizzla on the front page of their paper, because they know it will sell like hot cakes. It is a strategy (Sizzla's official website, however, does mention the discovery of a weapons cache at Judgement Yard in March 2005, editor's note).
I don't feel threatened, and I am not threatened. And if you threaten me, you will make me laugh, because I am not afraid to fight you. You think you are going to come and punch me in the face just like that, then come on. You want a fight, you will get a fight. If you want love, you will get love. Once again, everybody has the right to live, everybody is free and has the right to feel safe. Before we even talk about guns, you have the right to have a knife at home, for example. And you can do a lot of damage with one. Weapons are everywhere. It is up to the governments and the leaders of this world to put an end to all that. We could stop the manufacture of weapons, and confiscate them all. But people kill each other, there are people who rape others, some don't dare go out alone and others want to defend themselves. The only thing we can do is in our music. We must give people music and hope that they don't fight.
But dancehall culture and the gun lyrics contribute to the violence on the island...
No. The rise in violence comes from people's suffering and deprivation, people who don't have a decent justice system, who have no clothes, no food, who have no jobs and don't go to school. They become ignorant, and that is the result.
So it has nothing to do with certain lyrics?
When you listen to gun lyrics, it doesn't mean you have to go and fight. Artists get robbed, artists get killed. As an artist, I can't shoot someone down, or stab them. All I can do is express myself with words. Show that I am really serious, make it known that I can't be attacked. It is only in the music, nothing more.
You have some very sharp things to say about Whites and Blacks...
You know, Whites ask me to do concerts where I am sometimes the only Black person there with my band. And Sizzla has to be there. It is no joke: racism is not a question of prejudice. It is a question of equality and justice.
Do you think racial mixing is the future?
It is not about colours. Each has his own struggle and his own victory. Africa for the Africans, America for the Americans, Japan for the Japanese and Europe for the Europeans. But at the same time, love knows no limits. You can't tell them who to be, you can't tell them what to do. You have to know what you are doing, and they have to know what they are doing. But you also have to keep a kind of supremacy. Because there are Black people, that exists, there are White people, that exists, there are Chinese, Indians, that exists. What are you going to do? Kill most of them because they are Black, White or Chinese? People are free to do what they want, as long as they do nothing violent. But at the same time, to maintain the supremacy of your nation, a Black man must take a Black woman, a White man a White woman, and an Indian man an Indian woman. And yet love has no colour. Whites and Blacks must find love and comfort.
Is the message of reggae still the same as in Bob Marley's day?
It is still the same. It is just that Bob Marley, as an artist, played an instrument and played with a fabulous band. Young people today should play an instrument. That is the difference. Because that is why we no longer see that spiritual side that we saw in Bob Marley. He played his own tunes, whereas other artists have musicians who play them for them.
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